Dante's Inferno

Amazing vivid imagery - kudos to Dante's overactive imagination!  I confess that this book read like a fantastic horror flick to me in many ways.  I understand that this text is about confronting the 'evils' in life.  I am struck by the horrors and lack of compassion of this God.  Like Enchiridion, the God in this text appears to be to be very, very cruel.  I never understood why anyone would want to subscribe to such a cruel god..  vengeful and hateful!  Dante the Pilgrim torturing and relishing in sinners' pain (e.g. refusing to remove ice from eyes thus breaking his promise, pulling chunks of hair out) - what kind of sick <bleep> is this?!  I have always thought this about this portrayal of Christian God.  I can understand the compassionate God and Jesus in a more mystical Christianity (find the Jesus/God in you philosophy, similar to find the Buddha within you) but not this cruel, cruel God.

I am also struck by a powerless Lucifer in this text.  Lucifer seems static, frozen, unable to do much which then means that all the eternal suffering is caused by God, a very, very cruel one.  I suppose one can read this text as a cautionary tale.  I am reminded of the violence, suffering and deaths in some children's fairy tales.  Perhaps this text is in tune with that genre, generally speaking.

On suicides - I am extremely appalled by the lack of compassion from God for those who led a miserable life and then who takes their own lives.  They will be punished eternally in hell - WTF?!  Seriously, what kind of sick God is this..  where is the mercy and compassion that Julian of Norwich talks about?

It is interesting how God/heaven/hell/ have been interpreted by various peoples...

I didn't give much thought to the difference levels of hell but as Steve points out, being a traitor is one of the worst sins one can commit and the 'sin' pertains to the maintenance of early capitalist system.  Very interesting - this had to be pointed out to me given my lack of knowledge of this time period. Interesting how capitalist propaganda has evolved over the years.

Julian of Norwich

When I first read JoN, I thought to myself, "Did Julian accidentally consume ergot via moldy bread?" but then again, I thought, it is possible to reach the mystical state that J experienced through other means such as deep meditation, fasting and even through illness (e.g. meningitis has been known to produce hallucinogenic experiences).

J's description of the alternating emotions of sorrow and bliss (14) and the rapidly changing face of Christ (aging./decaying) (15) - these descriptions are extremely similar to the psychedelic experiences I have had while on hallucinogenic drugs which is why I thought ergot/moldy bread..  On my personal experience on sorrow - everyday, my partner and I discuss some aspects of inequality/suffering/social justice issues and so these thoughts are deeply ingrained in me.  As an atheist, I attribute the feelings of deep, deep sorrow I feel to the suffering of the billions of people, animals - our collective suffering (similar to J's interpretation on page 17).  My partner would comfort me when I experience these sorrowful moments and my emotion would often change to one of bliss.  I would burst into uncontrollably laughter.  I attribute this to the beauty that there is in the world, to the hope and the goodness that exists despite the suffering.  If I was a religious person (and not understanding why I am having visions), I can see attributing these very deep emotions to God but since I am not religious, my interpretation of my personal visions is quite different.  I also experience the 'decay' of faces and human bodies.  Again, I attribute this to a secular reason - the natural of birth and death.  What is alive must die but the dead is 'reborn' via decay.  The decay of our flesh becomes sustenance for other living things.  I see it as a beautiful thing and I rejoice in laughter.

I find it interesting that a good number of my classmates expressed a desire to experience the visions of Julian and that they were drawn to the God and Christ that Julian sees.  I can understand wanting to experience such powerful visions - to me, this is psychedelic experience in its highest form in its ability to (hopefully) transform one's self for the better.  A psychedelic experience is a religious experience.   I cannot say that I am drawn to Julian's God.  She is giving too much credit to a supposedly loving God but I am not convinced by her reasoning.

Christ's sacrifice is similar to the highest form of love professed in Plato's Symposium (12, 28).  I think this concept has been misused in many ways.  I am thinking of wars in today's context.  Soldiers who die in wars are relegated to some higher level ('Our military died so we can enjoy our rights today' argument).  Civilians who are murdered by military during war are called 'collateral damage'.  Killing to bring peace and democracy just doesn't sound right to me...  The concept of sacrifice as an elevated being is problematic in many, many ways.  I recognize that this concept is much older than the concept of Christ.

As with many of the religious texts we have been reading, I see this writing as a guide to mitigate our suffering on earth.  Nothing more.

J's desire to suffer is a complete put-off as I view it through my modern lens.  It is so non-lie affirming.  I recall my trip to Sakata, Japan where I viewed mummified bodies of Buddhist monks who starved themselves to death.  It was believed that those who manage to do this and naturally mummify their bodies (by only eating one nut a day underground with little air to breathe) to reach Buddhahood.  I thought about them when reading JoN.

Love is a Stranger - Rumi

The background on Rumi and Middle Eastern culture from Shab was very, very helpful in trying to understand Rumi a little better.  I confess that I didn't really know what to write for my journal entry on Rumi (or Sappho).  The poems are lovely and evocative but can be interpreted in many ways.  I won't (and do not dare to) attempt an analysis on Rumi but will instead comment on some few concepts that were significant to me.

I do not disagree that Rumi speaks on divine love but one can interpret divine love in many ways.  Through my atheist lens, I read 'divine love' (as applied in my own life) as the unity/oneness we feel for all of humanity, all creatures, all living and non-living things on earth (and beyond).  This one sentence captures the sentiment well for me.
"I've disappeared like a drop of vinegar
in an ocean of honey" (14).

I adore The Root of the Root of Yourself (16-17)!  But I adore it in a secular way despite the mention of God.  Letting go of one's ego, setting oneself free from "things that don't exist" (17).  Very Buddhist!  A very passionate poem, speaking on the bliss that one can attain if you let go of the things that don't really matter in life.  I read the concept of God much as the "Buddha/God" within you, not some higher being that we look up to.

In The Intellectual (21), Rumi appears to put down reason and to note the importance of passion.  Rumi certainly manages to convey passion very well!  There is often sooooo much emphasis placed on reason in our modern western world and passion put down.  It is refreshing and a wonderful sign that Rumi's passion is still being read today.  I think that our ability to be passionate is an important element of our ability to reason.  It is my passion for animals that lead me to my vegan lifestyle.  My mind has been very preoccupied with the Occupy movements around the world.  I would argue that it is reason but it is also a lot of passion that fuels the 99%.  I was worked up in passion/rage during the 2010 Olympics.  I was baffled by seemingly intelligent people who did not understand why some resisted this event, not just on Coast Salish territories but all around the world.  My insightful partner said, “Intelligence does not equate awareness.  You are giving intelligence far too much credit”.  This stuck with me.  In the context of Occupy, I am seeing a lot of passion from various parties.  The movement seems fractured but I think the passion will carry the people through.

Heart to Heart ... and An Afternoon Trim

CHARACTERS

Arjuna	Recently elected leader of the nation, Dilemma
Creon	Leader of the nation, Polis
Mencius	Barber and counselor to Arjuna and Creon
Anonymous[1]	99% of humanity

---

[1] 21^st century Chorus. 

SETTING 

The year 2011 AD in Mencius Barber Shoppe.  Arjuna is in need of a haircut while Creon is in need of a shave. 

Arjuna is trying to sit still while Mencius is tending to his hair needs.

Arjuna	Woe, my dear friend and barber, Mencius – I am so confused!  I don’t know what to do.  Oh, just a one-inch trim all around, please.
Mencius	Right, boss.  One-inch off all around.  What is the matter, Arjuna?  Spill your woes to me.
Arjuna	Kauravas, my defeated election opponent and my dearest cousin is crying foul, claiming election fraud and that he is the rightful ruler of Dilemma.  He is as we are speaking, plotting a war and an assassination attempt on me with other members of our family – his own flesh and blood!  How can I summon opposing family members and battle my own kin whom I have played with, learned with and from and grown up with?
Mencius	You must do your duties to your family but you must also think with your Heart, to think morally.  Treat members of your family with respect in accordance to their age and hierarchy.  Extend this philosophy to your community, to your nation, to all others around you and feel the domino effect of the love around you (11).
Arjuna	But Krishna, my military advisor tells me that it is my duty to fight against Kauravas.  It is my dharmic duty to fight as a warrior.  I am to instill self-discipline and to carry out my warrior duties.  Death, passions and emotions are temporal.  “Try to see the bigger picture”, Krishna counsels me.  Oh Mencius, easier said than done.  One minute I think Krishna is right, the next minute, I think, no, something doesn’t sit well with me. My gut is wrenched!
Mencius	You have spoken of very clear somatic signs of a thinking heart, my dear Arjuna.  You are aware and thinking about the suffering that would befall you, loved ones and numerous others if you battle Kauravas.  You have the heart of compassion and benevolence, of shame and duty.  Are you questioning your heart of right and wrong, or wisdom? (38)  What is the right or wrong action – are you looking for answers from me?
Anonymous	The both of you talk about duty.  Is duty used interchangeably with obedience or are we talking about moral duty here?  We all have a moral duty to each other, to humanity.  This is our greatest duty.  Yes, we must attend to duties to our parents, teachers and even nature.  But we must never forget our duty to humanity!  This duty outweighs our obedience or duty to any one leader or loved one! All this killing on both sides – for what?  So either you or your cousin can feel powerful and exert authority over others?!  Think about it!
Mencius	Follow the Way, follow your Thinking Heart.  Do what comes naturally.  You have duties to various peoples.  We all do.  You ought to do your duties to loved ones.  Remember that you also have a duty to yourself.  Look into the mirror.  Look inward for your necessary course of actions (85).  Do not underestimate the transformative power of duties of virtue and benevolence.  Oh and hold still, will you?  Or I might accidentally take out an ear!
Arjuna	My gut is wrenched and it is difficult to hold still, dear friend but I shall try a little harder.  What good can come from me killing my kin, with interfamilial violence?  So I can hold on to the title of Dilemma’s leader?  Is this worth the pain and suffering?  Does my universal and dharmic duty as a warrior superceed my duty as cousin, brother, nephew and uncle to my kin as Krishna counsels?
Mencius	Interfamilial violence is cyclical.  If you kill Kauravas, someone will avenge him and someone else will avenge the avenger and so on.  The killing will never end (158-159).
Arjuna	So what should I do?  Krishna tells me that renunciation of action is worse than action (59).  I am so confused.  My soul is tormented.
Anonymous	Do your duty to humanity!  Duty to humanity means avoiding killing and conflict whenever possible.  Krishna’s counsel is meant as a way to cope with the dilemma of ‘to battle Kauravas or not’.  If you fight as Krishna counsels you to, his rationale, in theory, absolves you from any wrongdoing.  You must do what you were in a sense destined to do.  This thinking is fundamentally flawed.  You must think of your universal brothers and sisters, not just your blood relations.  This battle involves others too.  Look inward and then look at humanity.  What do you see?

Creon is in the next barber chair getting his beard trimmed by Mencius’ colleague.

Creon	Excuse me for cutting in, fellas… but I couldn’t help listening into your conversation.  Mind if I chime in?
Arjuna	Sighing.  I need all the advice I can get.  Please do.
Creon	Creon is my name, leader of Polis.  You are Arjuna, I gathered and we all know Mencius of course.  Pleased to meet you.  Extending hand to shake.
Arjuna	And you.  Shaking Creon’s hand.

Mencius tips his hat and nods to both men.

Creon	I confess that my intention in joining in this conversation is somewhat selfish.  I, too have a conundrum and would love your insights.  But first, let me say a few words about your problem, Arjuna.  Just remember that your nation is first.  You must do whatever it takes to protect your nation.  You must be a patriot before you are a brother, nephew or uncle! (68)
Arjuna	You have confused me further.  I do not understand.
Creon	You are the rightfully elected leader of Dilemma.  Sure, the election was contentious but you were declared the winner of the election in accordance to Dilemma’s laws.  You cannot allow a rebellion to take charge.  You must be patriotic first, uphold this election result and defend the nation from an illegal uprising!
Arjuna	But what good can come out of kin killing kin?
Anonymous	What good can come out of killing, period!  We are anonymous and we ask that the killing stops now!  No more misanthropy!
Mencius	Gentlemen, may I remind you the important things in life – a family that is well, happy and provided for.  Dignity and pride in all of one’s actions in life.  A life that others will want to strive towards also.   Ruling nations is not one of life’s delights (148-149).
Anonymous	Affirm your unity and oneness with humanity!  We must do our duty to humanity!  No one person has a right to rule over another.  We are anonymous and we ask that the killing stops now!  No more misanthropy!
Creon	But the nation-state is first!  Traitors must not be tolerated!  You cannot allow your nation to be invaded and your reign contested!
Mencius	You must measure your own Heart, Arjuna (12).   “Only when there are things a man will not do is he capable of doing great things” (90).
Arjuna	What Krishna counsels makes sense.  What Mencius counsels makes sense.  What Creon counsels makes sense.  What Anonymous counsels make sense.  Deep sighing.  I will take everything in and reflect.  Now tell me Creon about your woes.
Creon	There has been a civil war in my nation.  Kin killing kin for a hold on power over the nation.   My nephews, Polyneices and Eteocles died battling each other.  Polyneices brought outside forces to fight against Polis.  He is a traitor to Polis.  I must make him an example to my nation’s people!  We will not tolerate traitors!  Patriots, huzzah!
Arjuna	And how will you make Polyneices an example to your people?
Creon	His body will be left out in the battlefield for creatures to devour and for all to see.  This is what the body of a traitor looks like (68).
Anonymous	What good is that to humanity?!
Creon	Patriots over traitors!  This is my principle; this is the law!  Security of the homeland is first priority!
Mencius	Recall the transformative power of virtue and benevolence, Creon (11).   The way you treat the people of your nation should be an extension of the way you should treat your offsprings.  You must tend to their needs (9).  This is what makes a ruler great, not the physical size of his nation-state.
Creon	Old man, what does that have to do with Polyneices not being given proper burial rites?!  My patience wears thin!
Anonymous	Example?!  How horrid to dehumanize your kin.  To allow the desecration of your nephew’s body!  What happened to your humanity?  Was Polyneices not once near and dear to you?
Creon	He was but he was also a traitor.  All of Polis must know! My foolish young niece, Antigone breaks the law forbidding a proper burial for Polyneices.  She is young and foolish.  The law is the law.  Anyone who breaks the law but suffer the death penalty.  The law is fair and objective.  I must apply the law equally to all, kin or not (68-69).  Homeland security first.  Citizenship of the nation first.
Anonymous	‘Trophies’ of war on display!  Horrors of war on display!  Oh the lack of humanity!  This body - once a human being, your own flesh and blood!  We are anonymous and we demand humanity!
Mencius	A desecrated body on display in the name of homeland security.  Rule by fear cannot be everlasting.  Rule by respect and admiration is the way of a proper leader (36).  Recall also duty to family.  Antigone is your family.  Antigone was doing her duty to her brother.
Anonymous	Oh the humanity!  Spare Antigone, your own flesh and blood.  Have you no heart?  The law is law, you say but if one man alone can create law, then how can law be universal and just?  Smash authority!  Smash concentrated power!  Civil disobedience, my people!  Rise up against unjust laws and stand strong on your principles!
Creon	My principles lie with the law!
Mencius	Think with your Heart, dear Creon.  I know that your nature is originally good.  Compassion in action.  Being able to look others in the eye, duties and rites (38).  Reflect on the necessary actions that you must take in the near future.
Arjuna	What Mencius counsels make sense.  What Anonymous counsels makes sense.  What Creon counsels makes sense.  But how to make sense of it all?
Mencius	The key is to follow your Heart, your Thinking Heart.

Creon moves his chin to the left for the beard trim.

Anonymous	We are Anonymous!  Show us humanity!
Mencius	Polis has been under turmoil.  Civil war is never good.  You must practice constant Heart.  Look inward and you will find the necessary actions (79).
Creon	I had my mind made up and now you have all confused me.
Mencius	Follow the Way.  Follow your Thinking Heart and tremendous joy will come to you (87).  You ought not go “against the spirit of dutifulness” (89).
Anonymous	Kin and kin battled each other.  Must yet another kin die by the laws of another kin?  When does the killing end?  We are anonymous and we ask that the killing stops now!  No more misanthropy!
Creon	We have many duties and many social roles.  How does one trump another?
Mencius	Do what comes naturally.  Follow the natural rhythm.  Follow the Way.  Showing mirror to Arjuna.  So what do you think of the haircut?
Arjuna	Fantastic, Mencius.  I feel like a new man.
Creon	It’s always good to shed – I feel ten pounds lighter!  Laughing.
Mencius	Well, it’s been a pleasure, friends.  I wish you both the best and I trust you to follow your Hearts.
Arjuna	Till next time, friends.
Creon	Toodles!  Waving goodbye.

References
The Bhagavad-Gita: Krishna’s Counsel in Time of War (B. Stoler Miller, Trans.).  (2004).  NewYork: Bantam Classic.

Mencius (D. C. Lau, Trans.).  (2004).  London: Penguin Classics.

Sophocles.  The Three Theban Plays: Antigone, Oedipus the King, Oedipus at Colonus (R. Fagles, Trans.).  (1984).  New York: Penguin Classics.

Letters of Abelard and Heloise

"The senses are like windows through which the vices gain entry into the soul" (29).
Interesting how pleasures in life are labeled as evil/bad.  Why does piety = non-pleasures and serving of an abstract idea (God)?  Why is there not the view that embodied pleasures are a gift from God to rejoice in? This negative view of bodily pleasures seem to have carried forward into the 20th century in our 'war' against drugs and in some religious circles, the 'war' against sexual pleasure.  Abelard appears to blame his libido as the source of all his troubles.  Given his misfortunes, one can see why he had this view although I am not convinced that this was a rationale thought.  Brilliant as he was, he did not seem to blame his downfall partly on his own arrogance.

"Since the beginning of the human race women had brought the noblest men to ruin" (13).
A very patriarchal thought.  Even the relationship between Abelard and Heloise is very patriarchal.  Abelard boasts of his conquest of Heloise.  He beats her as part of his 'front' of merely being Heloise's teacher in front of her uncle, Fulbert.  He later admits that he did not love her but lusted after her.  In his letters, he alluded to the rape of Heloise on more than one occasion by violent force.  Is this really a love story then?  Or was this an abusive relationship with Heloise under the illusion that she was in love?

In the case of Heloise, she was a beautiful, intelligent young woman with libido.  Jilted of her lover physically, mentally and sexually, she lives a religious life that she had no heart or desire for.  She appears to be bitter about being jilted and 'forced' into a life she did not wish for.  Interesting that she criticizes her piety as viewed by others and notes her own hypocrisy as a 'pious' woman and that she criticizes the role of marriage as a sham to socially control human sexuality yet she does not question in particular the patriarchal nature of her treatment, of women's treatment in society.  She appeared to accept her 'natural' subordinate to Abelard despite his confession that he merely lusted after her.

II cannot help but feel sorry for Abelard, a seemingly broken man.  Despite his initial inflated ego, he did not deserve the tragedies that befell him.  Perhaps his piousness and simple monastic lifestyle was a way for him to reconcile the horrors he experienced.  I am not convinced that he was atoning for his sins.. although it could be interpreted as such, rather, I saw an intelligent but mentally broken man who was doing was he needed for survival.

Despite his high intelligence, it was his perceived heresy and/or lack of faith that landed him many of the subsequent woes after the cruel castration inflicted on him.  To lead a simple, monastic and pious life might alleviate some of these accusations, thus lessening his enemies and the dangers in his life and may have allowed him to attempt to his best ability make peace with his 'perpetual hell on earth' by various enemies.

On a more positive note, I appreciate Abelard's idea of understanding and intent in action and not just reading without understanding or action without heart (205, 209).  Somewhat Mencian.

Enchiridion - St. Augustine

As Ellie mentioned, it is easy to get bogged down with this text.  I confess that this rings very true for me.  I try to keep an open mind but as a non-believer, it was really hard to stay focus on this text. My mind would wander.  Augustine argues that faith, hope and love are to be defended with reason (4) and my initial thoughts were 'say whaaaaaat?!' As I have said, I tried to keep an open mind and to stay focused but got bogged down by reasoning that really seem to have no basis in reason in my opinion (e.g. the explanation of the constitution of the Holy Trinity or when God intervenes in evil, it is because he has mercy and when he doesn't, it is because of justice (112) (whaaaat??!!)).  I will try to read the text in a non-literal sense (it is the only way I can keep reading this book...) and to pull strengths/goodness from it.


Good vs. evil
Augustine's concept of good and evil (16) reminds me of Mencius' conception of morality (human nature is originally good but morality must be cultivated).  Evil cannot exist without good but good can evil without evil (11). Rational creatures have free will to choose to do good or evil.  In the same vein as Mencius, Augustine argues that good must be cultivated and practised in action.  Abstraction alone will not suffice.  The heart/will must be in the "good" actions.  Thus, while obedience to God is necessary, it is up to the individual to do this.  The human determines her fate in afterlife by her actions on earth.  The point of doing good and avoiding evil is to bring maximum happiness in our lives (reaching nirvana?) (17-18).

Faith, hope and love
Faith, hope and love are intertwined.  Of them all, love is most important (reminds me of 'heart' in Mencius).  Love is in faith and hope.  Love is all encompassing.  If one has hope or faith without love for God, then hope/faith is moot.

Duty
Failure (or ignorance) to do our duty to God will result in harmful error/sin.  Again, similar to the domino effect in Mencius in which we are to do our duties at the family level which will then populate at the state level and so on.  Duty in Augustine's sense is duty to God, duty to self, duty to others (do onto yourself as you'd like to be treated) - a similar domino effect of goodness all around!  Not doing our duty will lead to sin (97).

The main gist of the text as with most others deal with suffering/evil (disease, death, lack of love, etc.) and how do we live in a world that is not perfect.  Like Sarah, it is difficult to detach myself from Christianity as we know it today.  Also, I was raised an atheist and remained one in adulthood and thus do not have the background knowledge of the bible, Christian history to really ground myself in Enchiridion.  I understand that Augustine wrote this piece as a guide on how to live a good life.  I understand that all (or most) religions are good in their intentions, Christianity included but the didactic nature of the text leaves me feeling no love, hope or faith for the God or religion of Augustine.  Much like Rob, I see the God in this text as a dictator.  Rule by fear.  Love God or suffer in eternal hell.  This is  wrathful God.  Getting back to Mencius, rule by admiration would seem to make more sense.  The God in this text does not persuade me to admire Him.  I do recognize that Augustine does put the cord in our hands as Teresa notes - we determine our eternal fates by living a good life (and believing in God) but it is still a religion that seems so wrathful despite its good intentions.

Meditations - Marcus Aurelius

So much overlap with some of the other texts we've been reading!  Human nature is the same regardless of where and when the people are from.

natural rhythm
"To work against one another therefore is to oppose Nature, and to be vexed with another or to turn away from him is to tend to antagonism." (10)
This reminds me of Mencius' ideals on maintaining social harmony and going with the universe's natural rhythm.

"Be sober without effort." (28) - wu wei!

one life to live, with purpose
We only have one life to live, it may be brief, it may be long so live it to its fullest.  Live in the present moment.  Live is ephemeral (30). Very much based in materialism like Lucretis.

reason and passion
Our ability to reason distinguishes us from animals.  We use reason to control our passions.  Reason creates virtue.  Passions/desires like wealth, power, material things are fleeting and unimportant.  Self control is key. MA very methodically reasons out that the processes in life like aging, death, etc. are inevitable and so we should accept them instead of fighting or fearing them (very Epicurean (Lucretius)) - mitigating anxiety and fear in life.  Disease, aging, etc. neither good nor evil.  It is just part of the natural rhythm of life.  Celebrates the rhythms of life.

oneness with the universe/duties
We are all interconnected to all humans and the whole universe.  We have social duties to each other and thus we must work with each other.  We must do our assigned duties in life.  Very much like Krishna's counsel.  Perhaps this is MA's way of reconciling all the war that has been going on under his reign. (What of Obama in today's context?)

One consciousness (31) - very much Krishna ("I am in everything").  A very Hindu/Buddhist idea in which the interconnectedness of life is emphasized - perhaps a teaching on why we should respect our environment instead of conquering it.

way of life
Philosophy guides you life but you must have the will (heart - Mencius) to conduct action.  Philosophy as a way of life (a lifelong commitment).  look within when you are not on the right path.  do not worry about what others think, rather observe and correct yourself (through reason).  Must calm, give peace to mind, not body.  Look to positive examples for inspiration (53).

divinity
"And this deity is each man's mind and reason" (41) - like Krishna or the 'Buddha within'.  The concept of divinity in Meditations appears less mystical than that in Hinduism or Buddhism.  I think each concept conveys the same ideas, just in different forms.

materialism
Reasoning must be grounded in empiricism/facts (45) and logic (70). Change is constant and normal (59).

It's interesting that Nixon and Obama were mentioned in class.  Perhaps I am cynical..  While I 'get it' that Aurelius did not seem to be a stereotypical power hungry ruler nor was he born into power. None the less, he was a ruler and he chose a life of the elites.  He chose to defend the Roman empire, to war with other empires seeking to maintain or expand their territories.  Mencius defends a punitive war and this seems to be the case for Aurelius.  As such, Aurelius is seen to be doing his necessary duties to his kingdom yet at the same time, was war/defence really the necessary option?  Did he really have to send thousands of men to die to uphold an empire?  Were other solutions not possible?  Did he contemplate the ethics of him defending territories that were 'won' through expansionist violence?  I am asking rhetorical questions, of course... and I speak from a pacifist point of view.  But I can't help but wonder, did Aurelius really want to be a philosopher but landed in the role of a warring emperor instead?  I get the sense that this may be partially true and his writings may have scribed the way they were so that he would be remembered as a good philosopher rather than as an effective ruler.

The Nature of Things - Lucretius

I confess that I found it difficult to plough through this text despite the amazing beauty in Lucretius' poetry. The very advanced scientific thought is just absolutely astounding.  It was difficult to stay focused as someone whose strength does not lie in philosophy or the sciences...

Steve is right.  In reading the first four weeks of LS 800's texts, the questions we ask as humans haven't changed.  We are still questioning, theorizing the same things about human nature.  It is amazing to think how much we are like the people thousands of years before us.

Lucretius' writing and rationales remind me of many of the ideas atheists, including myself espouse (except that Lucretius' ideas were much more embedded in science) in the sense that it is absurd to think that somehow, we as humans are special and the centre of God's universe, or that God design everything in the universe.  At the time, the honour bestowed onto science and/or Epicurus can be arguable seen as almost religious.  I do not necessarily think that this is the case but it did make me think about the hardcore scientific/Darwinian absolutist atheists who shun all religion and spirituality and to see where Lucretius' ideas stand in all this.

Lucretius' (or Epicurus') ideas of mitigating anxiety in life and the fear of death is very Buddhist to me.  It's a philosophy (rather than religion) that makes great sense to me.  Mitigate suffering/discontent in life. Great advice to give to anyone if you ask me.  it's rather cliché but true - you only have one life to live, so why not live it to its fullest?  His ideas of the cycles of birth, death and decay remind me of Hindu/Buddhist ideas of birth/rebirth/reincarnation.  I see them as parallel ideas, just communicated in different ways.

Lucretius' writing is highly evocative, communicating the beauty of nature and more generally of life well.  He writes about marveling at the stars and skies in Book II - something we did as children but the wonderment seems to fizzle from us as adults.  His sense of wonderment or at the very least his ability to communicate his sense of wonderment reminds me of the heightened self and sensory awareness when one is on psychedelic substances.